Wikiversity:Babel

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Geographylogo.svg Wikiversity:BabelБългарски · Русский · Svenska

Babel

Wikiversity:Language select

беларуская: Калі гэта толькі магчыма, калі ласка, пакідайце свае каментарыі непасрэдна на старонцы «Talk» адпаведнага артыкулу Вікі, а на дадзенай старонцы пакідайце толькі спасылку туды.
български: Това е многоезичен форум, в който могат да се обсъждат всякакви въпроси. По възможност, пишете вашите коментарии непосредствено на беседата на съответната статия, а тук поставяйте само връзки до тях.
brezhoneg: E kement ha ma c'hallit en ober, laoskit ho kemennadennoù war bajenn gaozeal ar pennad zo e kaoz, ha na skrivit amañ nemet ur gerig displegañ gant ul liamm.
čeština: Pokud je to možné, zanechte detailní zprávu na diskuzní stránce příslušnéhoho článku a sem dejte jen jednoduché vysvětlení s odkazem.
dansk: Prøv så vidt muligt at skrive dine beskeder på de relevante artiklers diskussionssider og blot sætte et link til den her.
Deutsch: Sofern möglich, hinterlasse Deine Nachrichten auf der Diskussionseite des betreffenden Artikels und plaziere hier lediglich einen Link dorthin.
Ελληνικά: Όσο αυτό είναι δυνατόν, παρακαλούμε αφήστε τα μηνύματά σας στη Σελίδα Συζήτησης του σχετικού άρθρου με πλήρεις λεπτομέρειες και απλώς αφήστε εδώ έναν σύνδεσμο.
English: As far as possible, please leave your messages on the Talk page of a relevant article with full details, and leave just a single line here with a link to it.
Esperanto: Laŭeble metu vian plenan mesaĝon en la diskuton de la koncerna artikolo kaj jen nur unu linion kun ligo tien!
español: En tanto sea posible, coloca tu mensaje en la página de discusión del artículo concerniente, y deja aquí solamente una línea con un enlace hacia el mismo.
français: Dans la mesure du possible, veuillez laisser vos messages dans la page discussion de l'article concerné et n'insérer ici qu'un lien vers ce message.
galego: Se for posible deixe as súas mensaxes na páxina de conversa do artigo correspondente, insira nesta páxina só a ligazón cara a esa mensaxe
italiano: Nei limiti del possibile, lasciate i vostri messaggi nella pagina di discussione dell'articolo e inserite in questa pagina solo il link alla discussione.
日本語: くわしい話はなるべく関連するページのノートに書いておき、ここにはそこへのリンクを添えた1行程度のメッセージだけを残すようにお願いします。
한국어: 가능하면 개별 문서의 토론 페이지에 내용을 작성하시고, 여기에는 토론 페이지의 링크와 함께 간단한 언급만 남겨주세요.
norsk bokmål: Så langt det lar seg gjørem, skriv din beskjed på den relevante diskusjonssiden, og skriv kun ei linje som referer dit herfra.
Ripoarisch: Wann möschlėsh, donn_Dinge Bëijdraach op dė Klaaf_Sigk fun_däm_Atikkel wo_t_dröm_jëijd, un pak_hee enne Lėngk_drop henn.
Nederlands: Laat je gedetailleerde berichten zo veel mogelijk achter op de overlegpagina van het betreffende artikel en hier een enkele regel met een verwijzing daar naar toe.
occitan: Dins la mesura del possible, daissar vòstres messatges dins la pagina discutida de l'article concernat e inserir aquí pas qu'un ligam vèrs aqueste messatge.
polski: Dopóki to możliwe, rozbudowane wiadomości prosimy umieszczać na stronach dyskusyjnych omawianych artykułów lub tematów, a w tym miejscu dodawać jedynie jednolinijkową adnotację z linkiem do dyskusji.
português: Preferencialmente, deixe suas mensagens na página de discussão do artigo correspondente com os detalhes completos, deixando aqui apenas uma simples linha com link para a mesma.
русский: Здесь находится многоязычный форум, где можно обсудить любые вопросы. По возможности, оставляйте ваши комментарии непосредственно на странице обсуждения соответствующей статьи Вики, а на данной странице помещайте только ссылку туда.
slovenščina: Kolikor je le mogoče, pustite svoja sporočila z vsemi podrobnostmi na pogovorni strani ustreznega članka, tu pa naj ostane le vrstica s povezavo nanjo.
српски / srpski: Уколико је то могуће, коментаре остављајте на одговарајућим страницама за разговор дотичних чланака, а овдје на страници за разговор можете ставити само везу ка Вашем коментару.
svenska: I den mån det är möjligt, vänligen lämna ditt fullständiga meddelande på artikelns diskussionssida, och skriv sedan bara någon enstaka rad här med en länk till meddelandet.
ไทย: การอภิปรายเกี่ยวกับหัวข้อเรื่องใดๆ กรุณาเขียนไว้ที่ หน้าพูดคุย ของเรื่องนั้นๆ และทำลิ้งก์จากหน้านี้ไปสู่หัวข้อเรื่องนั้น โดยเขียนไม่ควรเกินหนึ่งบรรทัด.
Türkçe: Mümkün olduğu kadar, mesajlarınızı tartışma sayfasına bırakın ve orada uzun bir şekilde açıklayın. Buraya ise sadece mesajınızın bulunduğunu belirten bir yazı yazarak mesajınıza link verin
中文: 请尽量在讨论页发表你的详细意见,只在本页用一行写下你的意见摘要,然后做个链接连到即可。/請儘量在討論頁發表你的詳細意見,只在本頁用一行寫下你的意見摘要,然後做個鏈結連到即可。
العربية: رجاء اترك رسائلك على صفحة النقاش للمقالة ذات الصلة بالتفاصيل الكاملة، واترك سطرا واحدا فقط هنا مع الرابط إليه.
فارسی: لطفاً پیغام های خود را با جزئیات کامل در صفحه بحث مربوط به این مقاله قرار دهید و یک خط بنویسید و آن را به پیغام خود لینک کنید
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Terms of Use update[edit]

As you may be aware, given the banner notice, Wikimedia has updated its Terms of Use. This updated version will become effective on May 25, 2012, and can be reviewed here. To find out more, please visit wmf:New Terms of use/en. (Links are available at those pages to a number of different languages.) Thanks. :) --Mdennis (WMF) (talk) 23:49, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Tamil Transliteration Tools Required[edit]

In order to translate the beta page in Tamil, we require the Extension which supports tamil typing in the beta pages. Please install it ASAP. Thanks :) -- Dineshkumar Ponnusamy (talk) 16:30, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

To get this you have to make a request in Bugzilla. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 07:43, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
I do it. Crochet.david (talk) 08:25, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
request #41912 in bugzilla. Crochet.david (talk) 08:58, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Call for comments on draft trademark policy[edit]

Request for comment on Commons: Should Wikimedia support MP4 video?[edit]

I apologize for this message being only in English. Please translate it if needed to help your community.

The Wikimedia Foundation's multimedia team seeks community guidance on a proposal to support the MP4 video format. This digital video standard is used widely around the world to record, edit and watch videos on mobile phones, desktop computers and home video devices. It is also known as H.264/MPEG-4 or AVC.

Supporting the MP4 format would make it much easier for our users to view and contribute video on Wikipedia and Wikimedia projects -- and video files could be offered in dual formats on our sites, so we could continue to support current open formats (WebM and Ogg Theora).

However, MP4 is a patent-encumbered format, and using a proprietary format would be a departure from our current practice of only supporting open formats on our sites -- even though the licenses appear to have acceptable legal terms, with only a small fee required.

We would appreciate your guidance on whether or not to support MP4. Our Request for Comments presents views both in favor and against MP4 support, based on opinions we’ve heard in our discussions with community and team members.

Please join this RfC -- and share your advice.

All users are welcome to participate, whether you are active on Commons, Wikipedia, other Wikimedia project -- or any site that uses content from our free media repository.

You are also welcome to join tomorrow's Office hours chat on IRC, this Thursday, January 16, at 19:00 UTC, if you would like to discuss this project with our team and other community members.

We look forward to a constructive discussion with you, so we can make a more informed decision together on this important topic. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:46, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Universal Language Selector will be enabled by default again on this wiki by 21 February 2014[edit]

On January 21 2014 the MediaWiki extension Universal Language Selector (ULS) was disabled on this wiki. A new preference was added for logged-in users to turn on ULS. This was done to prevent slow loading of pages due to ULS webfonts, a behaviour that had been observed by the Wikimedia Technical Operations team on some wikis.

We are now ready to enable ULS again. The temporary preference to enable ULS will be removed. A new checkbox has been added to the Language Panel to enable/disable font delivery. This will be unchecked by default for this wiki, but can be selected at any time by the users to enable webfonts. This is an interim solution while we improve the feature of webfonts delivery.

You can read the announcement and the development plan for more information. Apologies for writing this message only in English. Thank you. Runa 12:30, 19 February 2014‎

Amendment to the Terms of Use[edit]

Call for project ideas: funding is available for community experiments[edit]

IEG key blue.png

I apologize if this message is not in your language. Please help translate it.

Do you have an idea for a project that could improve your community? Individual Engagement Grants from the Wikimedia Foundation help support individuals and small teams to organize experiments for 6 months. You can get funding to try out your idea for online community organizing, outreach, tool-building, or research to help make Wikiversity better. In March, we’re looking for new project proposals.

Examples of past Individual Engagement Grant projects:

Proposals are due by 31 March 2014. There are a number of ways to get involved!

Hope to have your participation,

--Siko Bouterse, Head of Individual Engagement Grants, Wikimedia Foundation 19:44, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Proposed optional changes to Terms of Use amendment[edit]

Hello all, in response to some community comments in the discussion on the amendment to the Terms of Use on undisclosed paid editing, we have prepared two optional changes. Please read about these optional changes on Meta wiki and share your comments. If you can (and this is a non english project), please translate this announcement. Thanks! Slaporte (WMF) 21:56, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion policy[edit]

A user made a change to Template:Delete that represents a change of policy. The user had been revert warring over the placement of a deletion template, and was insisting that removal of the template required a custodian.[] In spite of multiple warnings and notices and requests to discuss the deletion on the attached Talk page, the user kept replacing it, until finally a Chinese custodian showed up and removed the template. It was already obvious that the page would be kept, because that custodian had already edited the page.

Deletion on WMF wikis is traditionally subject to community consensus; the default, if there is no consensus to delete, is for the page to be kept. However, speedy deletion is a way to quickly delete files that, uncontroversially, should not be kept, without requiring discussion. Administrators have no special right to make deletion decisions; but routinely make such decisions when consensus is clear, or is reasonably expected to be clear.

If any user considers the deletion inappropriate, there is no consensus for deletion, hence, traditionally, any user may remove the speedy deletion template, and if anyone still thinks the file should be deleted, then they may start a discussion. Following en.wikipedia practice, and except for very clearly inappropriate or illegal pages, administrators do not speedy delete in the presence of any opposition; rather, the page goes to Articles for deletion or similar discussion pages.

The template has always stated this. In discussion on the attached talk page, I had pointed to the text of the template. So the user changed the template! I have reverted this (and accepted one change that was obvious.) However, if possible, the community should affirm policy. --Abd (talk) 15:12, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

The user reverted my change again,[1] and has now argued for the change,[2] showing that he thinks administrators are specially qualified to make deletion decisions without community discussion. His change requires custodians to do "thorough investigation" before deleting, but speedy deletion is designed for deletions not requiring such investigation. His idea places the burden on custodians, exclusively.
He has shown by recent behavior that he will revert endlessly, if not stopped, as he was stopped on en.wikiversity.[3]. I have had a request open on Wikiversity:Request custodian action/En for days now, with no action. I now have two choices: abandon Beta to this disruptive user, or revert war. Because of the warning of David.crochet, I'm risking being blocked at any time, so I might as well at least attempt to keep the deletion template, widely used, in its previous state. Hence I intend to do that, until this matter is resolved. Please, Beta users, act to defend your wiki and your community rights. --Abd (talk) 14:14, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
  • The immediate situation was resolved when a custodian edited the template, making it clear that the change the user was revert warring to try to make was rejected, and protected the template. However, long-term, I'm concerned by the lack of response here and on Wikiversity:Request custodian action/En. --Abd (talk) 23:21, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Changes to the default site typography coming soon[edit]

This week, the typography on Wikimedia sites will be updated for all readers and editors who use the default "Vector" skin. This change will involve new serif fonts for some headings, small tweaks to body content fonts, text size, text color, and spacing between elements. The schedule is:

  • April 1st: non-Wikipedia projects will see this change live
  • April 3rd: Wikipedias will see this change live

This change is very similar to the "Typography Update" Beta Feature that has been available on Wikimedia projects since November 2013. After several rounds of testing and with feedback from the community, this Beta Feature will be disabled and successful aspects enabled in the default site appearance. Users who are logged in may still choose to use another skin, or alter their personal CSS, if they prefer a different appearance. Local common CSS styles will also apply as normal, for issues with local styles and scripts that impact all users.

For more information:

-- Steven Walling (Product Manager) on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation's User Experience Design team 23:04, 31 March 2014‎

Disable local upload[edit]

Please translate this message as you find it appropriate.

Per Requests for comment/Disable local uploads on smaller wikis, Local uploads policy, Commons:Turning off local uploads and the licensing policy resolution passed by the Wikimedia Foundation, it is hereby required that "[a]s of March 23, 2007, any newly uploaded files under an unacceptable license shall be deleted", unless and until Beta Wikiversity decides to adopt a policy for non-free files. This is a formal notification/proposal to turn off local upload following the policies of other wikis (e.g. French Wikinews) and to redirect the upload link in the sidebar "Importer un fichier"/"Upload file" to point automatically to the upload page at Commons. This will not only comply with the licensing resolution but also enable better file curation by Commons administrators to ensure files are uploaded properly and clearly designated with a free license. --TeleComNasSprVen (talk) 22:43, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, I think we dont need non free files.--Juandev (talk) 12:47, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
I thought we accepted some fair use, didn't we? Vogone (talk) 13:14, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Well, I dont know if fair use is under non free term. Regarding fair use, I dont know. But some languages doesnt tolerate them as their legal system doesnt recognise them (en versus cs).--Juandev (talk) 13:25, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
I am personally also against fair use but I think it should be allowed here in case a test community decides to use it. And yes, fair use counts as non-free as it isn't allowed to upload fair use content to Commons. Vogone (talk) 13:32, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Vogone, can you please clarify why it should be allowed here? Are you saying that Wikiversity language editions hosted here should develop a translatable test EDP page for Beta Wikiversity? I'm not against establishing an EDP here to satisfy the licensing resolution, but as Juandev notes it might be difficult to enforce properly due to competing Wikiversity content jurisdictions (which "section" of Beta Wikiversity falls under which EDP), and Beta Wikiversity has no clear audience (e.g. English Wikipedia's EDP is sufficient because it targets English speakers, German Wikipedia targets German speakers, etc). Don't forget because Beta Wikiversity is accessible by anyone, someone from Chinese Wikiversity, which might not have suitable EDP, might access a non-free file intended for Turkish Wikiversity's EDP. TeleComNasSprVen (talk) 22:50, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
"Non-free use" is a general term that covers "fair use," a term that applies under U.S. copyright law, i.e., one may use copyrighted material in certain ways, without requiring the permission of the copyright owner. This is especially relevant for nonprofit uses, where, usually, the remedy of a copyright owner is to request take-down of the material. It's not illegal, fair use, at least not in the U.S, and creates no liability if a takedown notice is properly respected (and the WMF handles that). Another form of fair use is cc-by-sa-NC, ie., freely usable material but only free for noncommercial use. It can occur, easily, that such material is valuable for an educational resource. The English Wikiversity has an EDP policy, based on the English Wikipedia policy. Such usage under the EDP is to be, by WMF policy, limited, and must be accompanied by a "non-free use rationale."
Having said this, administering file licensing can be a nightmare. It can get extraordinarily complex; my sense of Commons is that even experts get it wrong, fairly often, or, more accurately, even experts can't predict what Commons will decide. Local argument on licensing is often highly misinformed. So disabling local uploads is an option, let Commons handle it, but that does disallow fair use and other non-free usages, which are permitted if we have an Exemption Doctrine Policy. Having a separate policy for each language here would be a nightmare, again.
I have proposed simplified procedures on en.wikiversity for handling non-free use; with the more complex procedures in place, the result is that license issues are often not addressed at all, until later, when someone -- usually TeleCom! -- comes along and points out that the i's were not dotted and the t was missing a crossbar. The user is long gone, and the resource will be damaged if the file is deleted .... The crucial interest of the WMF in its resolution on licensing is that any non-free use be "machine-readably tagged." That will allow a re-user to identify this material and make choices about it. Nonprofit re-users will have no problem, they will generally protected by the same legal conditions as we are. But for-profit users may need to do some work. And the WMF is trying to lessen that work by forcing us to do it. I.e, finding or creating fully free files, when we already have something we could legally use.
There is nothing wrong with the goal of free use. However, if that conflicts with the quality of resources, which is more important? We are obligated, here, to follow WMF policy, but we do have substantial freedom as to how to do that.
Frankly, though, I don't see that Beta has the community resources to make the necessary decisions, it has often taken months to get a custodian promoted, requests for custodian action sit unattended for a long time, participation in discussions is weak, and the community is balkanized. So I would not oppose shutting down uploads here. --Abd (talk) 03:03, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Lithuanian namespace aliases[edit]

Just for your information: Wikiversity:Kavinė diskusijoms#Namespace aliases. In case you have any strong objections to this change, please note it there. Thanks. Vogone (talk) 11:05, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

List of active users for a specific language[edit]

I think it would be nice, to have a lists of users who has knowledge of a specific language and has an account here at Wikiversity Beta. Its for those language versions, which are for a long time in preparation. If someone new, comes and he'd/she'd like to continue with development, this person may easily contact former or whatever person, who has skills in that language and invite them to contribute.

For example. I noticed that user:Kusurija, who works on Lithuanian wv, founded the category:Contributors LT and moved some editors of lt, he knows to that category. Of course, you may have a look on the lithuanian page histories and dig users from there. But isnt this user unfriendly?

On the other side, we use to have categories of congributors by language using {{Babel}}, unfortunately some of us, push to use Magic Word instead, which doesnt have such option. And the tool linked by Crochet.david lists all contributors, so if you import here pages from other projects, these users are on the list too, which according my opinion is not intended.--Juandev (talk) 12:43, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

I strongly agree with Juandev about that tool linked by Crochet.david is for this problem useless. Former {{Babel}} was much more useful. Properly working former {{Babel}} not being is great loss for some (maybe all?) Mediawiki projects. This not being makes co-operations very hard (also as for to find co-laborers). --Kusurija (talk) 13:09, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
It's possible to enable categorisation for the babel magic work. It only requires consensus and a request on Bugzilla and I personally would support enabling that. Vogone (talk) 13:12, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
If it will work properly, I strongly agree. If will not work properly, I'd not be sure as much. --Kusurija (talk) 13:19, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
See e.g. my userpage on Wikidata or on Minang Wikipedia where #babel plus categorisation works perfectly. Vogone (talk) 13:22, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
I was wondering if that is an option. Yes, I think it would help. Even not all users use Babel on their user page it still helps. Moreover, we may ask newbies to use babel than.--Juandev (talk) 13:23, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
I'm very sorry, but I can't use bugzilla or IRC canals, as my PC is weak and crashes after joining. --Kusurija (talk) 13:36, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
  • I'm trying to understand what happened here. Juandev added the Babel template to his user page. David.crochet changed that to the "magic word," which creates a similar display, but does not add the user to language categories. Since I know that Juandev is also User:Juan de Vojníkov, I looked there, and see that his user page had the Babel template, which was changed by Crochet.david.bot to use the magic word.[4] These raised my eyebrows a bit, since normally the wikis don't allow others to edit one's user page. The bot made this change to 117 user pages.[5] Looks like he also made this change manually to about 12 pages that day, and may have made others earlier. There were also elimination of manual addition of language categories, replaced with the magic word, thus removing these users from categories they had explicitly placed themselves in. Was this change ever discussed?
  • If there is a reason to use the magic word, then the magic word could be used in Template:Babel, which could still add categories. And then perhaps Crochet.david.bot could replace those templates.... It would have been better just edit the template instead.
  • Okay, reading the documentation for mw:Extension:Babel I see that there is a configuration that adds the user to categories. Looks like this was not enabled here, a configuration error, I'd say. It is in LocalSettings.php. In 2011, the category configuration was moved moved from MediaWiki namespace messages to the $wgBabelCategoryNames configuration variable. I.e, up to then, any admin could fix a problem. Now it takes a developer, if I'm correct. (Vogone was right.)
  • A bit of bait-and-switch here. #Babel was sold as locally configurable.[6] Then that was changed. Maybe a good reason for that, but ... local control slips away....
  • Again, I don't know why this was an improvement, but if it is, and short of going to Bugzilla, we can handle it by using the Babel template with the magic word #Babel incorporated. The template would simply add the magic word, using the supplied parameters, and then the categories, using the same. --Abd (talk) 02:40, 21 April 2014 (UTC)