Wikiversity:Babel/archive/2006

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Some news / Quelques infos[edit]

Hello. The Help section has been opened. Feel free to browse it (especially the Help:FAQ) and to ask questions if you have some. You can also see the reports section from separate projects.

Hola. Ya se ha creado la sección de ayuda. Siéntete libre para consultarla (especialmente las preguntas frecuentes), así como para formular preguntas si te quedan dudas. También puedes ver los informes de los proyectos separados.

Bonjour. La section Aide a été ouverte. N'hésitez pas à la consulter, en particulier la foire aux questions, et à poser les vôtres. Vous pouvez aussi consulter les rapports provenant des projets séparés. guillom 09:28, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Hallo. Der Hilfe-Bereich wurde eröffnet. Viel Spaß beim Durchstöbern (besonders die Hilfe:FAQ) und Fragen stellen, sofern es welche gibt. Du kannst dir auch den Report-Bereich anderer Projekte anschauen.

Merhaba. Yardim bölümü hizmetinizde. Inceleyip sorularinizi iletebilirsiniz. Ayrica raporlar bölümünü de diger projeler icin inceleyebilirsiniz.

Scope of research[edit]

Hi, it seems to me that the Wikiversity:Scope of research page, its talk page, and the various language pages and their talk pages have partially been messed up. At least there are some strange redirects, between name spaces which I do not understand. Also it has meanwhile become unclear to me, where I should add to the discussion going on. If it is all meant to be as it is, I don't understand it at all. Particularly the light blue page seems to be an disorganized a mess.

The rest of this comment has been moved by guillom to Wikiversity talk:Scope of research/En#Purodha's comments

--Purodha 23:44, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

This is how the multilingual discussion system works. This system is an experiment. You are free to propose a more efficient system if you have some ideas. guillom 09:21, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
I do not even understand how it is meant to work. I see hardly anyone using it. I see an unorganized mess of pages and statements, and over few days, apparently noone around who could repair and organize it. Since as it currently is, symmetry between languages appears violated, it's either not used as intended, or intended in a way which strongly disagree with. --Purodha 11:40, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't see anything to repair. All is explained in Wikiversity:Multilingualism. There is one coordination page which links to summaries in different languages. Those summaries result from discussions that happened between people speaking the same language. So please be more specific about what you don't understand. guillom 12:06, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Ok I give up. This system is not working for me, likely by design then. There is a mix of unrelated stuff and tons of links linking to 'no real information' so I do not find the real diskussion, I do not find the supposely existing short summaries, but mixtures of those, I do not find out what relates to which, and I cannot tell how to sort things, only that stuff intermingled as I find it, is desorganized. Being a person who usually understands structures quite well and effordlessly, I believe this is flawed and likely not workable for others, too. --Purodha 16:54, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
What a pity you decide to resign! I don't understand why you just can't tell what the problem is, so as to fix things. People taking part in discussions seems to understand how it works, and all I ask you is to tell me what you don't understand so I can help you and improve the system. guillom 16:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
"Teacher, firmly: 'Now as the term is almost over, are there any questions left?' Pupil, hesitant: '… yes, please, Sir, could you please explain what you've been talking about all this long time?' Audience: Laugh" … The problem is, there is no base for questions, Wikiversity talk:Multilingualism I cannot translate the page as it is not making enough sense, lacks clarity, and seems to propose (in part) something which would obviously not work, and its supposed sample, Wikiversity:Scope of research, seems not set up or working as described, or I am just too stupid to get the hang of it. --Purodha 17:14, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Multiligual vs. language specific Wikiversities[edit]

Why do we not pool our ressources and have only one Wikiversity web site, offering content in various languages? --Purodha 11:40, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Beta is a coordination platform and thus needs to be multilingual. But hosting content in different languages would be impossible. All Wikimedia projects are separated by languages. Interwiki links exist to link similar pages together. guillom 12:06, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
None of that is true, or working.
  • Hosting content in different languages is possible. In fact, as I read somewhere, Beta Wikiversity is set up to host content in all languages but German and English. (Though I doubt meanwhile, that intention is there, to really do that)
  • Technically, there is no problem to host content in many languages under one common domain; about a dozen wikies do just that, possibly more, which I might not be aware of.
  • This is not a coordination site. Sorry to say that. The English language Wikiversity is coordinating itself, likely the German too. Here you find about a dozen scattered statements on Wikiversity:Scope of research while the en.wikiversity.org has several dozen long content pages on the subject, and a multitude of that of discussion. Bluntly said, they create Wikiversity, put it under typical anglocentric rules and ignore the rest of the world, as usual. If this were a true coordination site, all the materials on Wikiversity:Scope of research had to be here, not there.
  • If true intention was to create a Wikiversity of all languages, and to simply distribute pages of several languages over subdomains and interwiki link them, then such interwiki links would have to work. But they don't.
  • Nearly noone is doing anything here. I did not edit much, but a considerable amount of the recent changes of the last days have my user name. This demonstrates clearly, neither Wikiversity makers writing German, nor Wikiversity makers of the English language care to cooperate, and other language writers seem not willing to start their content here. At least I have not seen any yet.
So I come to the conclusion that this is likely an alibi wiki, set up promote anglocentric, possibly christianocentric, views of the world and ways of acting, while presenting a place to point others to, that is neither equipped, nor meant, to be working. --Purodha 16:54, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I'll try to answer your remarks in order.
  • In fact, as I read somewhere, Beta Wikiversity is set up to host content in all languages but German and English.
This is not true. Beta Wikiversity has been set up to be a coordination platform and to host content in languages which do not have a dedicated subdomain yet.
  • Technically, there is no problem to host content in many languages under one common domain; about a dozen wikies do just that.
May I ask you which Wikimedia projects are doing this? (except for WiktionaryZ, which requires this cohabitation per se).
  • Here you find about a dozen scattered statements on Wikiversity:Scope of research while the en.wikiversity.org has several dozen long content pages on the subject, and a multitude of that of discussion.
The English-language Wikiversity was set up before Beta. Moreover, I think all the pages you're talking about were imported from Wikibooks and clearly need cleanup. According to the Board resolution, the decisions made on Beta will concern all Wikiversity projects, and that's why I've been inviting everybody to join discussions on Beta.
  • Bluntly said, they create Wikiversity, put it under typical anglocentric rules and ignore the rest of the world, as usual.
This is coarse and, of course, false. But I guess it's easier to criticize than to improve things.
  • If true intention was to create a Wikiversity of all languages, and to simply distribute pages of several languages over subdomains and interwiki link them, then such interwiki links would have to work. But they don't.
We have requested the set up of interwiki links on bugzilla since August 24th (bugzilla:7117).
  • Nearly noone is doing anything here.
When people realize that they cannot run any research because they haven't taken the time to think about guidelines, they will feel concerned. We cannot force people to take part in discussions.
  • This demonstrates clearly, neither Wikiversity makers writing German, nor Wikiversity makers of the English language care to cooperate
This is bitterly unfair for JWSchmidt and Frank Schulenburg (for example), who have worked a lot on Beta.
  • So I come to the conclusion that this is likely an alibi wiki, set up promote anglocentric, possibly christianocentric, views of the world and ways of acting,
Coarse again, false again. I am neither English nor a churchgoer, and this is just another gratuitious attack.
In a nutshell, I don't see why you seem to be so frustrated and polemist, because you used to seem interested in taking part in Beta development. guillom 16:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Some answers, unsorted :-)
  • why you seem to be so frustrated and polemist - possibly I had a bad day.
  • The English-language Wikiversity was set up before Beta. Moreover, I think all the pages you're talking about were imported from Wikibooks and clearly need cleanup. According to the Board resolution, the decisions made on Beta will concern all Wikiversity projects, and that's why I've been inviting everybody to join discussions on Beta. - Good. I did not know of any of that. That means, the useful parts, if there are any, should be copied to Beta.
  • We have requested the set up of interwiki links … - Ok, from experience, I know, that is slow. (Will try again next year)
  • This is bitterly unfair for JWSchmidt and Frank Schulenburg (for example), who have worked a lot on Beta. - I was not at all wanting to put anybody down! The contrary is true, of course, my paise to all who do do something here, I only was to saye, we are few in numbers (of edits, and of persons) that is all.
  • Indeed I percieve the Wikimedia Foundation as anglocentric. I am not saying this to put a blame on them. It is just a fact of my percpetion. I assume that other percieve me as - I don't know what, centered to my historic roots, e.g. - and I don't mind. It is likely so.
have to go. --Purodha 17:45, 16 September 2006 (UTC)