Wikiversity:Kavinė diskusijoms

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Čia galima diskutuoti apie bendrus dalykus, kurie rūpi lietuviško vikiversiteto editoriams.
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Realius vikiversiteto editorių susitikimus planuokime ir aptarkime puslapyje Vikiversitetas:Realūs susitikimai.

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Problems with Deutsch language in Lithuanian wikiversity

As some people, interested in this, doesn't understand lithuanian or czech, I follow in english (protože někteří zúčasnění nerozumí litevsky nebo česky, pokračuji anglicky; kadangi kiti dalyviai nesupranta lietuviškai arba čekiškai, tęsiu angliškai). I apologize for that this project moved forward so slowly, as some cardinal parts was initiated in german language and as I wanted follow the works on project, I didn't understand it sufficiently. --Kusurija (talk) 17:44, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Its not a problem Kusurija. What Vogone do is, that he looks to (probably Wikiversity) german version, copy its structure and than translate it to Lithuanian. If we need to do some basic structure, we may translate from English or Czech. But the basic question is, if you need it? Or what kind of pages Lithuanian Wikiversity should have? I think there is no need to have many pages.

Or lets paraphrase it. Of course we have some dreams about our project, but usually these dreams are not necessary for fullfiling the project goals. Project goal is to get educational content, offer place for learners and organise research. Nice templates and popup windows are not necessary for that.--Juandev (talk) 20:01, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

I agree. Our priority should be on creating actual content (maybe even about many different subjects in order to have exemplary content for as many faculties as possible). Furthermore, also meta pages explaining the structure we use for this Wikiversity are of advanced relevance, in my opinion. Vogone (talk) 20:30, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Oh yes. I have just said to Kusurija, that only Main page, Discussion page, sorting (category tree), vision and ER content are necessary (i.e. 2 project pages). Other pages such as help, tutorials, rules etc. are optional.--Juandev (talk) 20:35, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Project cookbook

I propose to found a page called Wikiversity cookbook or something like that, were we describe in English (or with lt translations) how lt wikiversity is made, that the future generations, disconected from the actuall ones, doesnt have a problem with understanding how it works.--Juandev (talk) 20:10, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Kusurija already started to develop a page with notability criteria for this project. Furthermore, some brief description (which is also transcluded to the main page already) about how this project is (or should be) organised can be found here, though in Lithuanian language. Vogone (talk) 20:25, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, there might be some "technical" features to make it easier to exist here on Beta and than make it easier after moving to a new domain. So for example Category:Matematika (LT) not to mess up with category:Matematika, which was firstly used by Hungarians. Such arrangements, would be necessary document. Well not necessary, but less work and time loss for future users.--Juandev (talk) 20:39, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, it might be senseful to document such steps somewhere. Though, in case of Category:Matematika (LT), I'm not quite sure why we cannot use Category:Matematika instead. Of course it would overlap with some Hungarian content pages but besides that it wouldn't cause any problems I am aware of. Though, I could understand if someone of us would rather not like the categories to contain any pages in a foreign language. I think this is something we should decide and then implement consistently. Vogone (talk) 20:51, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Oh yes.--Juandev (talk) 20:54, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Category tree

I have some first proposals to the category tree:

1. category:LT - all pages in Lithuanian or with major part in Lithunian (not categories)
2. category:Kategorijos - root category for Lithuanian wv set in category:LT. Its not needed at this time, but less work for importer
3. distinguish categories, where more languages occupies same category. I see here some pros:
   1. clearer
   2. could create clear page count if necessary
   3. potential less work after import removing edditional information in categories, non occupied categories etc.

If this is applied, I propose to establish a hidden category, which would list such categories like category:Matematika (lt). That would be easier for the community if not having a robot to get a list of such cats to be replaced by normal cats.--Juandev (talk) 21:05, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

As far as I understood it, category:LT should contain all pages which are to be imported to the subdomain (and the LangCom also analyses that category if they check how active a test project is and how many pages it contains). So I guess it should also contain all categories used on the lt.wv test project. Vogone (talk) 21:28, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, OK.

I even see, that we (Czechs) left here the Main Page, because Betawikiversity is a communication hub.--Juandev (talk) 05:58, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

So, I had a look to the category tree and I would say, it need improvments. Sometime content categories are in the category of the Main page, which does not make much sense. On the other side, I categorized all templates to template category. Now someone with the knowledge of the language should go and make a detail tree there. The same could be done with pages from ns main.--Juandev (talk) 12:07, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

I made some changes to the category tree, though I have a question. Currently, some category names are in plural and some in singular. Which one should be preferred? On German language wikis, all category names are in the singular form. Vogone (talk) 18:08, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

I found out that it is beneficial to add [[Category:LT]] always right at the first line of every page and not together with the "lt-wikiversity-internal" ones. This makes sure that this BETA category stays separated and also template inclusions removing this category from the first slot in the category list at the bottom of every wiki page can be avoided. (also @Kusurija: Please use localised (Lithuanian) namespace names in the wikitext except if you link to betawikiversity-internal stuff like [[Category:LT]] :-)) Vogone (talk) 19:41, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Localised names? Well, I have to create a tool for that first, maybe youll be than faster in fixing existing pages, than me.--Juandev (talk) 20:50, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

After some edition, Chinese (Mandarin) categories has been automatically added to Lithuanian category tree. As I saw, there works template "Nebaigtas" (stub). As to this template, there should not be lithuanian wikiversity logo, but some other stub logo. --Kusurija (talk) 04:39, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Mhm, where do Mandarin categories show up? And regarding Šablonas:Nebaigtas, what do you mean by a "stub" logo? If you can show me an example how it should look like according to your wishes we could change it. Vogone (talk) 12:54, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Page 乐理 here. --Kusurija (talk) 20:55, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Fixed by the deletion of Template:Stub which redirected to Šablonas:Nebaigtas. Vogone (talk) 21:00, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Babel template rather than Cat:Contributors LT

What about to use {{Babel}}, which sets people automatically to the categories, rather than category:Contributors LT?--Juandev (talk) 06:19, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

As already pointed out on babel, #babel should work just fine for our purposes after the filed already bug gets resolved. Though I think Category:Contributors LT still might be a useful category to have as not every lt speaker automatically contributes to the Lithuanian language test project and vice versa. Vogone (talk) 22:36, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

It seems like the #babel extension was configured to include categorisation now. Though, the question is whether we want to continue using Category:Contributors LT or to delete it and only use Category:User lt. As User:Kusurija also created a category which includes his contributions to this project I would suggest to create a new category (e. g. Kategorija:Naudotojo kategorija) which includes subcategories like Kategorija:Kusurija and delete in favour of that. Vogone (talk) 11:50, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Namespace aliases

What do you think about adding Lithuanian namespace aliases to this project? That would allow as to use namespace names like "Vikiversitetas:" etc. now already and not just after the import to a new possible subdomain, would save us work after the import and additionally prevent creations of pages like it happened with Kategorija:Matematika. Regards, Vogone (talk) 10:15, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Good idea. Do you think devs will agree?--Juandev (talk) 11:39, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

See bugzilla:64080. They want us to decide that. Vogone (talk) 13:06, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Weak support from me. I think we can wait until the project is created (with subdomain), but sure it's easier to edit this project here if the correct namespaces would already exist. --Stryn (talk) 15:16, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Seems fine, but I don't think it's needed. PiRSquared17 (talk) 00:19, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Why don't you think it's needed? I mean, it wiuld save zs a lot of time in the future. Vogone (talk) 00:45, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

OK. Maybe we should inform the community at Babel. It would be also a good idea to make aliases for or versions, which are here in incubation, that they have a simmilar ease.--Juandev (talk) 13:11, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

I already left a message at Wikiversity:Portal though Wikiversity:Babel might indeed be the more appropriate place. Vogone (talk) 13:18, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Now I am confused. I started to talk in Babel, because its linked from English Main Page. Maybe the other page Portal has a different use? If not, lets merge them - not to have community discussion on hundreds of pages.--Juandev (talk) 13:27, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Merged. And yes, the scope of Wikiversity:Portal/En seems to be completely different. Vogone (talk) 13:41, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Maybe it would be easier to add aliasis for all languages, that we dont need to take care of it often.--Juandev (talk) 14:02, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't think it makes sense to add aliases for languages without a test project here. Though, of course we could think about adding them for all currently active test projects. Vogone (talk) 14:17, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

The change was deployed. From now on Lithuanian namespace names can be used in source code. Vogone (talk) 23:21, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

I would suggest using the Lithuanian namespace names for all content which will be on the subdomain wiki later but remain using the English ines for all BetaWV-related content (which won't be imported) like Category:LT or links to Wikiversity:Babel. Vogone (talk) 23:25, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Vizija

Vogone, kaip ir kur būtų geriausiai patalpinti lt.vikiversiteto viziją (g.b. strategiją, bet ne tik). Jinai turėtų būti surandama iš pagrindinio puslapio. Bet tai nebūtų tas pats, kaip Vikiversitetas:Kuo yra ir kuo nėra vikiversitetas. Ten galėtų būti, kokia vikiversiteto struktūra galėtų ateityje būti. Pvz. man nelabai patinka rusiško wv modelis. Jis turėtų būti platesnis, lankstesnis, nesukištas į "universitetų", "fakultetų" bei "katedrų" celes (kaip kokiame kalėjime). Ačiū iš anksto už nuomonę. (with editconflict) --Kusurija (talk) 13:55, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Aš tai manau kad Wikiversity:Apie Vikiversitetą tiktų. Pradžioje galėtume rašyti apie bendrąją informaciją ir toliau apie mūsų viziją. Aš irgi galvoju kad Vikiversitetas turėtų būti lankstus, bet irgi mėgstu tuos kursus ir fakultetus. Vogone (talk) 14:13, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Na, Tamsta pažiūrėkite į Wikiversity:Apie Vikiversitetą/Vikiversiteto vizija. Tikrai viską, ką būtų galima ateityje kurti neįmanoma sukišti į tuos 2 - 3 poskirius... Tikiuosi, jog neįsižeisite (na, pats esu kaltas, jog savo viziją neišdėsčiau anksčiau - o ir dabar neužbaigiau). --Kusurija (talk) 19:56, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Categories

Hi,

as per your request on cs.wv, I have add a new box with categories, to the Main page. In the code it looks like this:

<!-- "Kategorijos" -->
<h2 style="{{Stilius:Pagrindinis puslapis:Antraštė}}">'''Kategorijos'''</h2>
<div style="{{Stilius:Pagrindinis puslapis:Langelis}}">
{{Pagrindinis puslapis:Kategorijos}}
</div>

To change, what that includes you can here. But really, I would firstly tide up the category tree!--Juandev (talk) 19:03, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Oh, thank You so much! But how I'll get there categories Category:Pagalba, Category:Vikiversitetas, Category:Vikiversitetas:Bendruomenė, Category:Šablonai? Where is the mistake, that it doesn't automatically load there? Thank You for more help. --Kusurija (talk) 19:21, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Edit this: Template:Pagrindinis puslapis:Kategorijos.--Juandev (talk) 20:05, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, only now I understood fully. I apologize... (with editconflict) --Kusurija (talk) 20:09, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

No problem. You will learn it:-)--Juandev (talk) 20:10, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

And, what about to automate it?

Pagrindinės kategorijos

--Juandev (talk) 20:35, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Project Specific Logos

I added a project specific logo to our test project (like they are on Incubator, just category-specific). So from now on, the localised "Vikiversitetas" logo will show up on any page in Category:LT. Who doesn't like it, can disable this feature individually via Special:Preferences. Vogone (talk) 20:19, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, isnt that chaotic especially for newbies? Thay may think they are on real lt website.--Juandev (talk) 20:52, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

That is also the goal of an Incubator. Editing should feel like editing on an own site. If you wish, I could place a little BetaWV logo left to the "Vikiversitetas" one. This is also what happens on Incubator when you visit for example incubator:Wy/lt/Pagrindinis puslapis. Vogone (talk) 20:57, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Unlike Incubator, "multilingual" Beta Wikiversity doesn't even have Special:Translate... TeleComNasSprVen (talk) 04:24, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

This is true, though it could be changed. Anyway, I assume our translator capacities aren't that high anyway in general on this wiki due to only so few projects being incubated here. Vogone (talk) 05:45, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, wikiversites are mostly not be created by translations. But the multilingual hub would benefit from such extension here on beta. Dont know if it will not cause more work as there is already a system for translations.--Juandev (talk) 08:45, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Ahh, great idea. No I dont need BetaWV there.--Juandev (talk) 08:45, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

3 category trees?

I see, that lt is naturally creating 3 types of categories:

1. technical - to sort pages from other nses
2. content - to sort content pages
3. metainformative - to indicate page relation to a user or to indicate type of content, like Course, research and so on

S maybe it would be logic to have 3 category trees for these categories, which will go from root.

And well, we should not forgot for Beta related pages and their categories, which might be in a separate category system.--Juandev (talk) 18:37, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

wiki.mifsa.lt history and how I found myself here

A bunch of students from Vilnius University Mathematics and Informatics Faculty (MIF) have started a simple mediawiki.org instance to share their knowledge (and store for future generations) about courses they were studying. The studies wiki was started in 2007 and was greatly aknowledge by MIF students. In the same year, MIF student embassy (MIFSA) took the project in their hands and started hosting it at wiki.mifsa.lt subdomain. They protected the project from university authority, created helpful content, induced students to participate in content creation and maintained the server.

Only non-copyrighted material was stored on the wiki.mifsa.lt. All the content in the wiki was licences CC BY-SA. Students created and improved the content year by year. Almost every MIF course had its own page with these details:

1. Evaluation criterias and final mark composition
2. Link to the official course description (in lithuanian its called "sandas")
3. Lecturer name and the course website
4. Lecture notes polished by the students
5. Useful learning resources or links to the resources
6. Practical tasks examples
7. Former colloquiums and exams examples with their solutions.

And the wiki.mifsa.lt became the first helpmate for the studies. This wiki.mifsa.lt project was the ture joy in hard student lives. There was even a page with lecturers' jokes citations in the wiki.mifsa.lt.

But in the 2014 summer the wiki.mifsa.lt server has mysteriously burnt down and almost all the knowledge created during 7 wiki.mifsa.lt exitence years was lost. This was a huge blow for the wiki.mifsa.lt community.

Now the wiki.mifsa.lt community is looking what to do next. They know, what they need: its the same wikimedia.org instance, which would store knowledge and information about courses lectured in Lithuanian universities. The community want to learn from their mistakes and is looking for reliable infrastructure for the content. Question is: is the lt.wikiversity.org suitable infrastructure for the wiki.mifsa.lt type content? --FuksuFuksas 2014-12-16

That does indeed sound useful to me. We are always in need of free educational resources, no matter where they come from. If you could send some contributors here, that'd be great! Regards, Vogone (talk) 16:44, 16 December 2014 (UTC)