User talk:Hillgentleman/2008-3-24

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Archival page of user talk:hillgentleman:  Hillgentleman| 22:05, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Hillgentleman/2008-3-24, Welcome to Wikiversity Beta!
The mission of Wikiversity is to create and host a range of free-content, multilingual learning materials/resources, for all age groups in all languages; to host scholarly/learning projects and communities that support these materials; and to complement and develop existing Wikimedia projects (eg. a project devoted to finding good sources for Wikipedia articles). Wikiversity is not a platform for propaganda or advertisements.

Wikiversity is committed to the Neutral point of view, except in scholarly explorations which require the participants to take certain points of views, in which cases high scholarly ethics and disclosures of biases are required, as outlined in the research guidelines. Every piece of information in Wikiversity pages must be verifiable. --~~~~


Hello and welcome to Wikiversity beta! Thanks for your translations. I hope you will also take part in current discussions about research guidelines.

A little tip: to create a redirect page, you don't need to move and remove a page. Just write : #REDIRECT [[the page where you want the current page to redirect to]].

Last thing: redirects are from the titles in foreign language to the Page/Zh subpage (so as to know where all pages are).

Thanks and ask me if you have any questions! guillom 10:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikiversity:Scope of research have been started and Wikiversity:Research guidelines is waiting for a good will :) guillom 11:13, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


感谢你参与测试网站中文版的建设,希望你能继续努力,为成功设立中文wikiversity而努力。 当前wikiversity尚未有正式的中文译名。我先前暂时译作“维基大学”,取自英文的“university”在中文中译作“大学”之义,你译作“维基学院”也不错,但正式的名称可通过中文维基社群投票确定,我准备在中文维基百科设立wikiversity的译名投票,提名几个候选译名,然后根据大家的投票和讨论确定最终译名。不知你的看法如何?可在对话页面和我讨论。谢谢!--Vipuser(Talk) 16:14, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Research guidelines[edit]

Hello. I am not the one who has written this text, so you should ask Xenon. By the way, I see you have started translating Wikiversity talk:Research guidelines/Zh. It's not necessary to translate the whole page. The multilingualism system works by translating summaries of the discussions, so as to avoid translating the whole pages. guillom 08:46, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

"Research projects within Wikiversity" refers to research conducted by an editor and posted (published) on Wikiversity. Perhaps I'm using the wrong terms, but thats why it's up for discussion. In my experience on the web, anything publically accessible is classed as published, not neccessarily those sent through a book publisher or anything like that. It's a good way to work imo, since it prevents me from posting content I wouldn't want to be published. Perhaps that is too restrictive for Wikiversity, but it is a looser and less permenant sense than book publishing.

"All research must be ethical" - perhaps that should read "do not publish unethical research" - we can't stop people being unethical, but these are research guidelines, and we're making recommendations. The same goes for "you should be enthusiastic" - we can't force it but it makes research better. I'm not saying "be enthusiastic or go away", in context I'm saying "you should research to obtain results, and you should want to know what those results are, but you shouldn't change them". There is no point in researching something you aren't enthusiastic about, and there's also no point in gathering data if you're going to change what that data says. That makes it invalid, which is both non-valuable to readers and even perhaps misleading.

I'm not telling people what to do, I'm advising people what should and should not be 'published' on Wikiversity, with regards to research. But more importantly, for those people who wish to conduct research with the help of the other editors on Wikiversity (by allowing it to be edited), I'm briefly advising them how to conduct it and what not to do.

Hope that clears some of that up, but by all means edit/discuss - Xenon 12:02, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, that makes sense. I suppose the process I'm thinking of is posting your hypothesis, design and initial results on a page, other people discussing them on the discussion tab and making edits where appropriate - eventually resulting in an impartial analysis of the results and evaluation of the procedure.

That process differs greatly from standard research methods, where a small group of people will produce it and then publish it. Anybody else has to then either conduct follow up research or merely comment on the existing research. This Wikiversity procedure lets a lot more people, with a lot of different viewpoints, get involved - hopefully this produces a better, well rounded, NPOV study/ By NPOV I mean open to all possibilities, although POVs will show up in the analysis/evaluation. Anybody can add to the research and contribute, as well as discussing it - although perhaps the results should be kept separate and protected (eg /results).

With ethics, I'm merely suggesting we don't allow very unethical studies - things like how much current it needs to kill a guinea pig, or how people react if you burn down their house. In the most part it's common sense, but I still think there needs to be guidelines on what is not appropriate.

Results manipulation is separate to maintaining an ethical procedure. If people change the results to suit their POV, to back up what they think or simply to prove themselves right, that defies the entire notion of conducting research - they might as well just make it up completely. The research guidelines should outline that the raw data should not be edited, although any user is free to add their own interpretation and analysis of the results.

I'm not saying people should be enthusiastic, I'm saying they should do the research to get the results and see what they are, rather than doing it to prove a point and ending up manipulating the results when you aren't happy with them. Data is gathered to find out the answers to questions, so there is no point making it up based on what you think or feel. Yes, most researchers set out to see if a theory is correct (or not), or simply to find out the answers to questions, but there is no point in sharing results that are false.

As for publication, I suppose as long as it's on Wikiversity it's open to editing - there'll never be a definitive end point. That is the great thing of it being a Wiki - anybody can contribute even months after the results have been collected. Anybody is free to suggest their own POV and to condone or criticise the procedure.

As an overview, the basic guidelines would be:

  • No results manipulation at any time
  • No unethical procedures or methods
  • Anybody can edit analysis/evaluation

This provides a healthy environment for sharing data and ideas and ending up with some great research, with lots of POVs, fit for book publication.

I'm enjoying this discussion - Xenon 14:44, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely, objectivity is exactly what I meant. As for ethics, I'm a psychology student, and I do use ethics in the (subjective) sense of morals and right/wrong etc. In fact, whenever I heard the word 'ethical' I instantly thing of Stanley Milgram. If results manipulation comes under that heading, it makes things simpler. We've boiled the research guidelines down to two main principles: ethics and objectivity. And yes, the discussion page should be completely free - I see no point in restricting people there, so long as they remain ontopic etc. - Xenon 18:56, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

research cycle[edit]

"Can you elaborate on what a research cycle involve?" <-- I hope it is clear that I just made up the term "research cycle" in order to make a point about how objectivity is produced starting with subjective observations/ideas/claims. The point to be made is that the "raw material" of research involves subjective accounts of reality. The "raw material" is evaluated by others. Only through a "cycle" of subjecting the ideas of individuals to evaluation/critique by others do we move towards objectivity. In general, no individual research result carries much weight until it is repeatedly confirmed by others.

"many different modes of communications.....they should be subjected to different standards." <-- I agree that they are, often due to practical considerations. Research results can be used in many different ways. Sometimes they are used rather informally as a way to stimulate enthusiasm for a topic. In such contexts, it is common for people to say, "preliminary results suggest...." and anyone listening knows to not put too much trust in the results. At other times, research results influence decisions involving millions of lives and billions of dollars....under those conditions people usually want a high degree of care to be taken in subjecting the research results to careful analysis by many experts. In such situations, information qualified with "preliminary results suggest...." does not carry mush weight.

"So far the discussions on beta focus on the formal report phase; it seems to me that everything else has been assumed to be discussion and completely free. But there are problems: for example, a lecture course does not fit in either of the two categories." <-- It is not unusual for a lecture to mention new or disputed research. There is an important difference between discussion of such research and using a lecture to claim that new or disputed research proves something controversial. --JWSchmidt 17:36, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

"invite established schlars to participate in the review process?" <-- We need to work on outreach efforts. I think Wikiversity might need a speical type of functionary that would take the lead for for outreach and peer review. --JWSchmidt 01:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

research scope and guidelines[edit]

"Is the page 'wikiversity:scope of research' the discussion page for 'wikiversity:research guidelines'?" <-- Not really; "scope" means which types of research and topics for research should be allowed. So far, nobody had suggested that Wikiversity exclude specific types of research or topics for research. We now have to try to define some guideline/policies that will make sure that Wikiversity research activities are high quality. One of the research policies for Wikiversity might be a policy about the allowed scope of reasearch, but if all research is allowed, that would be a small policy!. --JWSchmidt 23:15, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


Hi. I would say... where you want :) Beta is a kind of meta-wiki, so you can create your page under the name you want, in the namespace you want. I have created Wikiversité in the main namespace.

About your sentence, yes, it's perfect ! guillom 21:02, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


我必須說我對中文校名的看法和你不同,但很高興看到有中文用戶在這裡積極籌措中文版的wikiversity。我認為中文維基人數量要支撐一個像樣的百科都嫌困難了,會有興趣定期參與大學研討班的恐怕更是稀少,所以我認為朝向研究導向的大學是唯一可能的途徑。在大學成立後我應該能運作人文學院的各學科,但我不指望會有幾個學生參與了。如果有任何需要協助的地方請儘管聯絡我。Lecter Talk 21:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Dutch Wikiversity[edit]

I will translate the English texts into Dutch. I have a problem with the name. Wikiversiteit doesn't sound very good to my taste. I prefer to give the Dutch Wikiversity the English name (nederlandstalige Wikiversity instead of nederlandstalige Wikiversiteit).--Daanschr 09:21, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I messed up with the disambiguation to the Dutch Wikiversity page on Multilingualism. First i called it tweetaligheid and then meertaligheid. I didn't managed to be able to change what i did wrong.--Daanschr 13:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, sorry for the trouble.--Daanschr 08:25, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


我看过英文版,发现“计算机系”属于工程学,但同时下面又写着“与数学有密切联系”,所以我把计算机系放进工学院,并且在数学院创立相关联接。我想这比较符合英文版吧。--Алексеевски Talk to me 09:50, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikiversity:Approved Wikiversity project proposal/Fr[edit]

Hello, I just notice that you have paste the project proposal. I also have seen that you visited the french wikiversity, and have seen our current translational work (on this proposal in french [1]). I have two questions therefore

  • Should we put the translation of the proposal on beta or on the wikiversity of the dedicated language ?
  • a reason why I didn't began the translation on beta was that we cannot import the text from meta. You juste made a copy/aste instead, but that way we loose history, and it seems to be a license problem. Maybe you can ask Guillom.

JmG 14:43, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikiversity:Approved Wikiversity project proposal/De[edit]

Hi Hillgentleman, can you look here please? ----Erkan Yilmaz (evaluate me!, discussion) 00:58, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, no worries, I got the prob solved. ----Erkan Yilmaz (evaluate me!, discussion) 01:13, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
you got a message on my page :-) ----Erkan Yilmaz (evaluate me!, discussion) 02:10, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello Hillgentleman, I am finished. Next question I have in mind is: for the following templates also different language-variations could be created: Template:Wikiversity, Template:WikiversityUsers.
BTW: do not forget to evaluate me :-) ----Erkan Yilmaz (evaluate me!, discussion) 12:58, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello Hillgentleman, in my signature you see the link titled "evaluate me!". If you click on it, then you go to a page, where you can say something nice or bad also about me. This is an approach model being discussed at German wikipedia at the moment, but I am happy also, about other wiki members, sharing their view about me, even if their voices do not count. Thank you in advance :-)
About the two templates, do you have any idea how to adapt these to German? I mean I could translate and make a new template called ".../De", but perhaps there is a more elegant way for this? ----Erkan Yilmaz (evaluate me!, discussion) 09:29, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikiversity:Scope/De translated[edit]

guess what, Wikiversity has another translated article :-) ----Erkan Yilmaz (evaluate me!, discussion) 19:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


正打算開發法學系, 打算在版權法之源流以及現代發展大造文章,另外宗教系美術設計系政治學系亦已有開發計畫, 同時亦在研究開發流行文化相關之學系, 但由於近日 internet 故障影響, 暫時不會有大動作。 至於"大學"一詞我已說明大學是有其所指, 常強調"自由"之維基媒體若以"大學"自稱, 似太俗氣 - Hardys 08:41, 30 December 2006 (UTC)


在開學計劃內己把香港政制研究列入政治系項目內,但我剛剛突然間有一個構想,若研究只是紙上談兵,那就不論你叫大學也好叫學院也好都無所謂,正如我在電影學院祈望會實際拍一套電影出來,証明 wikiversity 並非一個紙上談兵的虛擬空間,所以我突發奇想,政治系進行的香港政制研究,最後成果是可以實際推薦給政府落實推行,你會認為這構想是"不設實際"、"空想",還是 "why not" ? - Hardys 08:23, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

香港政制研究也是建基於現有政制之上所進行的二手研究項目, 由分析演變成評論,由評論再演變成建議是常有之事,況且亦未必成事,但至小有一個研究目的,正如學英文需要有鬼佬實踐才能掌握。我覺得大學/學院應有改善社會之責任,若研究只流於空談,那讀聖賢書所學為何?不知你是否同意?不過目前問題是參與者太小,無法從實踐中理解 wikiversity 之運作,我走去英文版看,大都是沒有內容之 "Under Construction This Month",我們能否先找些比較簡單的題材來展開學習計劃呢?- Hardys 12:51, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


有沒有辦法和其他語言的維基友合作做一些語言學習計劃, 例如和日本維基友合辦日文學習計劃, 亞拉伯維基友合辦亞拉伯語學習計劃, 我們也可以做中文學習計劃, 可以英文為基礎, 大家以自己的母語撰寫語言課程和交流語言心得如何?- Hardys 02:39, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Interwiki and interlingua[edit]

Hi Hillgentleman - thanks for educating me as to the various interwiki link combinations! Also, your work here on beta is much appreciated - btw, what do you think of the prospects of a Chinese Wikiversity, considering the Wikimedia-wide block in the PRC? Cormaggio 22:51, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that detailed response! Of course, it's up to Chinese people around the world to decide whether a Chinese Wikiversity is a good idea for the moment - since they are the people who are going to be working on it. If you want to convince people that it would be a good idea - then you would need to outline the potential benefits that a project like Wikiversity could bring - quite possibly in relation to other projects like Wikipedia. An example of link-in initiatives with Wikipedia can be found at en:Wikiversity and Wikipedia services - though I'm pretty sure that JWSchmidt has written at greater length on this elsewhere.

On something you said:

"So far I have been trying to ask people to come and work on something. But it is much easier, and requires less committment, to write a finite piece of article than to come up with, or to pick up, a new study topic by one-self. I don't know if I have found anyone who has a burning desire to learn something in depth. My picture of wikiversity is a collection of unfolded international interversity seminars unfolded on a wiki. It may take some time to find out the people for it."

It may well be more difficult to get people to write about something in a way that promotes learning, rather than imparts information. But this might be one of the things that we need to figure out through doing - ie how can people start to develop a learning resource, without feeling like they need to develop an entire course (or stick around to be an "instructor"). I think it's people's ideas of education that need to be examined here as much as our own practice. But, when you outline your picture of Wikiversity - what do you mean exactly? Is this the way that you see Wikiversity as being useful? Could you describe that in some more detail? Is it something you'd like to draw out in a learning/research project? (I'd be happy to collaborate..) Cormaggio 10:36, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


Hi Hillgentleman - I'm just wondering if you ever considered being a custodian on beta - you're an absolute prime candidate for all the work you do here. :-) Cormaggio 23:34, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

15:24, March 10, 2007 Sebmol changed group membership for User:Hillgentleman from (none) to sysop
Thank you for volunteering your time and effort :) Sebmol 13:25, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

IRC meeting[edit]

Hi Hillgentleman - are you going to be at the IRC meeting about research? It's in one hour from when I'm posting this message.. (congrats on custodianship!) Cormaggio 21:02, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry and thank you[edit]

Hello,Hillgentleman. Nice to meet you. I read your message. I'm sorry to write the page name without "Ja". Thank you for telling me about it.--Genppy 23:17, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


There is no iso code for Libneneh. can we use LN?


您好,請問我可否成為管理員?--Chaplin 01:33, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

我希望除了維基百科外,也能有機會大大的貢獻。--Chaplin 15:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

噢!可不可以詳細點解釋一下?--Chaplin 09:34, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

還在翻譯呢!是了,在這裡,管理員有什麼工作的?--Chaplin 13:53, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


Thank you for your comments :) --Tmnk 14:56, 22 April 2007 (UTC)


I read your message. "うんこ" means "stool" in Japanese. I can't understand this page, too. So I think that this page is "mischief". And this page should be deleted.--Genppy 09:27, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Technical support[edit]

Hi, recently I am having difficulted to establish here on beta friendlier environment. I am trying to upload some templates, Mediawiki and this stuff, but very often having difficulted with that. Could we establised kind of village pump (technical) for this stuff?--Juan 07:32, 10 May 2007 (UTC)


Dear Hillgentleman, I read your messages. Now, There are only two participants in the Japanese, I and Tmnk. So I think that participants in the Japanese can not elect a custodian now.--Genppy 07:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Wiki request[edit]

Hi! I read the rules on requesting a new wikiversity at meta, but there was something which is still unclear to me. It stated that I need 10 registered members, but what I don't understand is if all of those are supposed to have at least one edit or if only 5 of them must have at least one edit? Thank you in advance. Azimski 22:33, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Dear, friend it would be better that all of them will have one edit. My recomendation to your wiki is to create at least one functionable course and be able to create study materials sustainabily. Then is the right time to ask. I know it is difficult here on beta and all prefer to have a wikiversity in their own language, but this environment can just enpower you.--Juan 18:43, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for the advice! I am working on it but it seems hard to find 10 editors. I and another editor are working on the Intoduction to German and Intoduction to Italian courses but it's a slow process. Greetings, Azimski 21:18, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Well me personally I offered this project on the unversities. So in 3 months I see if it was a good idea.--Juan 14:34, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
That is true. It is good that you find people with common interests. Sometimes I think the first five wikviersities benefitted in some way in having been in incubation at wikibooks, which has already a pool of people with like interests.Hillgentleman| 01:54, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Well I spoke to people on IRC and they strongly opose this way. Even in our languages wikibooks are not so strong, but on the other had wikiversity will be there like baby with his mother.--Juan 14:34, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Just keep going, and do it for the sake of your own curiosity. I learnt some German and some Italian words in the past. (However, the only Italian words I know are: "Ei fu. Siccome immobile, dato il mortal sospiro,....":-)Hillgentleman| 01:59, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Bud fixed[edit]

Greetings! First of all, I'd like to thank you for fixing the bug. This will certainly make thing a lot easier for me. I do have one question though. Now that the bug is fixed there are a lot of tamplates which are no longer needed, is there any way I could either delete these or mark them for deletion. Azimski 12:25, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


Thank you very much for the welcoming.--Diaza 14:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


I tried to make a template with some information of the language I will fix it tommorow.--Diaza 22:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Could you please change my name and do it from Diaza ZaDiak? Thank you.--Diaza 09:58, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

He can't change your username. Ask User:JWSchmidt or User:Sebmol, they are bureaucrats. MF-Warburg 10:50, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Now I am ZaDiak.

I don't understand what are you trying to tell me to do could you please explain it?

You think it's not so important to work on learning projects? If you think it is please send me a message and tell me what to do to start working with it.

What I should do to start working on learning projects?

I noticed that you know many things about the wikiversity that are very important would you like to help me making a project for the greek wikiversity?

Thank you for the advice I would like to import some pages from the greek wikibooks can I do this?--ZaDiaktell 22:42, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


Hi!今日剛發現「維基學院」(暫稱)的測試版,於這裡已見中文版的初形,但仍需繼續改善。未知我可以做些什麼以協助其發展?--J.Wong 08:42, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

thank for your reply.--J.Wong 10:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


Do you think I should make it semi-protected too?--ZaDiak

It is the choice of the community of Greek Wikiversiters.Hillgentleman| 15:00, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


I would like you inform me, for any new template it circulates so that him I translate also in the Greek.--Consta 14:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay - I shall try. Or you may check special:newpages, or // Translate what you need and don't worry too much about it. After all we have a wiki here. Hillgentleman| 15:01, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


Dear Hillgentleman, I read your messages. There are a few active participants in the Japanese now. So I think that participants in the Japanese can elect a custodian. Thank you.--Genppy 05:36, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

wikipedia:de:User:R. Hillgentleman[edit]

Hi, your user wikipedia:de:User:R. Hillgentleman has botflag now. -- de:User:Raymond 18:04, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

SF iso-language-code[edit]

In Pääsivu, the Suomi wikiversity, the Iso language code is FI, but the annoucement's template is Wikiversity:Announcements/Sf and may be Wikiversity:Announcements/Fi. SF isn't an iso-laguage code. What we do, Rename it ? Crochet.david 15:01, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I think we should rename it. But let us ask user:Teemu about it first. Hillgentleman| 16:26, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Please, rename it. It was my mistake. Thank you! --Teemu 03:27, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Sandboxserver + announcement request[edit]

Hello Hillgentleman,

1. I know. :) [2],[3]
2. It is very informal here and the announcement are useful. I think it is good to post it in /en and whatever you like; people may translate them into other languages if they find it interesting. Hillgentleman| 23:02, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
I am glad for both :-) ----Erkan Yilmaz (talk ?, wiki blog) 23:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


Thanks Hillgentleman for the gadget implementation! Greetings from Munich
‫·‏לערי ריינהארט‏·‏T‏·‏m‏:‏Th‏·‏T‏·‏email me‏·‏‬ 03:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


Hello Hillgentleman. I would like to propose you as a bureaucrat as beta wikiversity needs an active bureaucrat. Are you interested in my proposal?--ZaDiak(T)(C)@ 23:01, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I can help. Hillgentleman| 22:55, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, then how about extending/creating a page like: Wikiversity:Custodians about Bureaucrat functions ? Also setting then an announcement and/or Sitenotice msg about the nomination and the starting election process/request for comments? (at en.WV there is atm such a period of comments) ----Erkan Yilmaz (Wikiversity:Chat, wiki blog) 08:56, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
I propose to host the election in Babel. I think that the page about custodianship should be expanded so as to include bureaucrat. We should also announce the elections in the sitenotice.--ZaDiak(T)(C)@ 13:37, 24 March 2008 (UTC)